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Episode 36 - Come and Carry It

Episode 36 - Come and Carry It

Welcome to the top Texas Lawyers podcast. This podcast is brought to you by the law firm Abercrombie and Sanchez PLLC. You can find us on the internet at www.astxlegal.com or by calling 1-888-981-7509. Your hosts are Bryan Abercrombie and Samuel Sanchez. Bryan has been practicing law for 18 years, and he's board certified by the Texas Board of Legal Specialization in the area of Family Law. Sam has been practicing for 13 years, is licensed in both Texas and Florida, and is a Certified Mediator. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and represent the opinions of the hosts. It's not designed to provide legal advice for your particular legal matter, and it should not replace the advice of competent counsel. Welcome. We hope you enjoy the top Texas Lawyers podcast.

Good afternoon and welcome to the Top Texas Lawyers Podcast. I am your host, Bryan Abercrombie, and with me as always is my co-host and partner in crime, Samuel Sanchez. How ya doing?

Doing well, doing well -- the queso into your chips, my friend.

Yes, yes. I like the Torchy's.  A shout out to Torchy's.

Loving some of their great tacos. So, yeah, can't go wrong.

So it's been a while. Sam, how's the summer been?

It has been hot. You know, like we started out wet and we just got hot.

We got the heat, humidity and all the fun stuff of Texas in August.

Yeah. And that takes me back. Takes me back to the days. Two-a-days. You remember, brother, you know, you burn it down.

Burn it up. Heat stroke.

Oh, yeah. Coaches say a no water break. That's right.

Passing out, you know, the good stuff: aching, in pain, hoping for rain during that afternoon practice.

I'd see those puffy clouds, you know, those are my favorite, the big puffy. You're like, oh, it's going to rain now!  Nope! Keep running.

Yeah. So good summer vacation. Anything good?

Yeah. You know, everybody's healthy. So we've got to count our blessings there. As far as that, you know, it's just been work filled. You know, we've we've been back and forth, the Supreme Court, you and I, a couple of times. So we're getting to be regular sparring partners, us and them.

Because they're getting to know our know our filings quite well.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, we've been busy. We've been busy, but it's been a good summer. It's been a really interesting summer as far as the way laws are changing and passing. It's such a shifting sand all across the country, not just in the state of Texas or Florida. Obviously, we're just you know, we're seeing so many dramatic things happen, but it's just kind of like hold on to your hat.

Stuff seems to be changing by the minute. And, you know, people are making more now than they used to not make law. And now they're you know, we're having court fight over that. We're having I mean, it's it's a crazy time. It's you know, I guess it's good for us that we've been monumentally busy, you know, which is obviously a good sign for, you know, for business is not necessarily a good sign for society sometimes. But but yeah, it's it's been a crazy, crazy year now. And I think I think we're at one of those kind of tipping points where laws seem to be changing and, you know, kind of attitudes seem to be changing. And, you know, we'll see have to see what the what the future shakes out.

Yeah. And the challenge of the challenge along those same lines, brother, I mean, you raise a great point, is that it seems like while we've seen a lot of new law come about, it seems like there's more of a disposition by individuals, by businesses, by entities, by municipalities to not follow the law. Right. So, you know, you kind of look at it and go, well, it's the application of the existing law. Exactly. It's getting challenged or they're not applying precedent. You know, we've gone in front of courts multiple times now. We're we're like that doesn't comport with the law. And they're like, so what? You know, it's like a unique time. We're going to do what we want to do. So it's you know, it's just a it's a it's been a strange summer for sure.

Absolutely. So we're going to talk about the the new some new law that's going to hit us in September. It's the new the new permit list carry law, which is set to take effect, I believe, on September one one. So we can talk about that. I think everybody wants to know about guns, right? I mean, you're a gun owner. I'm a gun owner. You know, you need to know these these laws, especially living here in Texas. And, you know, I mean, with the with the rise of, you know, not to, you know, not to not to go on to editorial editorial here, but I mean, with the rise in crime in the in the big cities over the last year or more, I mean, the crime rates gone up exponentially in Houston and Dallas. And, you know. You need to know your rights, you know, you need to know, I mean, because you don't know, you don't know what's going to happen then. You know, I'm a proponent of being able to carry a firearm if you need it. And if you feel safer that way, then then that's the that's the way you ought to go. So but I mean, you need to know the rules. And I think that's what we're here to try to try to help out with.

Well, for sure. For sure. And I mean, I know we usually, you know, just to take us a half step back and not to jump ahead, because I know you're going to we're going to cover some meaty stuff. I think this is long overdue once that law got passed and signed by the governor here in Texas. But so are we going to do our heyou in the news, our superstars? Yeah. You know what? These crazy people. All right. I got I got one I want to talk about. So let's say

Let's cover the. Maybe we should cover a little bit about what we've hit in the past. The Supreme Court decided on the case with the girl and the tweets and the the outside of the school

Off campus didn't make the cheerleading squad basically says fuck off their team because they're terrible. And, you know, the school, a school district comes back and says, oh, you're getting all kinds of disciplinary action. And she's like, I don't think so. Now, obviously is in college now. So she's you know, but it does go all the way to the Supreme Court. Supreme Court comes back and says.

Off campus,

Off campus, you can do what you want to do. Hey, big, big mark for free speech, you know,

So you can't penalize you for the softball team with you. Tweet out that you hate, you hate the school, you hate the coaches. And there a bunch of biased studies. We can still we still want to try it out for the for the softball team. Yeah.

Yeah.

So, OK, brave new world. I mean, I get it from from a certain standpoint, but also at the same time. I mean, do you. You know, I mean, maybe it's a failure of parenting or or something like that. I mean, your kids being responsible for teaching kids to be responsible for their actions. And, you know, your actions may have consequences. But at the same time, where the schoolhouse where the schoolhouse door stop, you know.

Well, and, you know, the part of it was is that, you know, really the bright line distinction, I think, that the court wanted to make is she signed an agreement that said, hey, I'm not going to do these kind of disparaging remarks or act out of the decorum that we believe is acceptable for our sport. And then she went off and said, hey, you know, this is I want to behave and you can't stop it. So, you know, the squad is watching, right? She's not on the spot. And that was a big piece of it. They're like, hey, she may have signed it, but she's not on it so that she wants to complain about it now. I mean, you're not going to inhibit it in that capacity. I think we're you know, the interesting point or the line of distinction that I would want to make is so you're a player and you and I were both ballers, right? So I run the football team. You know, they all want you to sign these agreements now that say, hey, this is what you're going to agree and how you're going to behave. And you do something off campus like you were known to do, because I know you were the bad boy, the school brother. So, you know, you get in trouble, you do something. It's against this school code. They come back in and want to discipline you. Can they do it, you know? You know, they didn't really go into that. They just say, hey, in this instance, she's off. These comments are made. You can't hold and you get you know, you're not going to be able to penalize her for that. I don't

Know. Our coaches felt that they could.

So I can tell you, I read many a laugh and many of you and many in Barraclough over our

Coaches felt that they could penalize you for off campus, that they are

Running boards against the O line. Dude, I mean, I'm telling you like that was that was a penalty when you're on defense anyway. Smaller, so. But yeah, I agree with you. I think it's it's definitely landmark. We're going to have to see how far they want to carry it and how many people want to come in and challenge it, because obviously kids are always getting in trouble, so.

Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk a little bit about that era, your high and mighty divorced case with the the crazy stuff going on in the news these days.

So it's not even a divorce case. It actually relates to our gun issue. It's Sharon Stone. Now, if you're any one of our

Oh, Sharon Stone, Sharon Stone, remember her in total recall?

Smoking pot, smoking hot. I mean, like Basic Instinct, one of the most famous scenes of all time caught on film. The lady was even though her total recall. Oh, yes, she is wicked. She's gorgeous. So anyway, Sharon Stone, she's at the grocery store. There's an armed robbery. She's not armed. She just basically, like puts on her Sharon Stone persona, goes into these people, tells them to fuck off, basically screams the yells and they they call it off. They go out the door and I'm like. So she's a hero. A straight she's a straight baller. Like a hero. Totally. She is a true hero. Yeah. Go in in there, unarm. So I'm just kidding. And I think she did make some intimations basically like, hey, you know what, if I was Gary and you'd be in a big pot of trouble. So it really tied directly into what we're going to talk about today, which is, hey, look now in Texas, where before you had to have a, you know, a license to carry, now you can carry concealed in the entire state, irrespective of would be done, of course or not. And that's kind of where

We're going to carry. You could pack what we call a heater.

You can pack a heater and we're still open carry two. So don't don't fret if you want to carry out a

At long last very long ride if you want to. And so just to give you a kind of a rundown of just everyone, a rundown on the law. Law applies to anyone that's 21 years of age or older. If you're as long as you have a clean criminal record, you can't be disqualified from carrying a firearm. So and in fact, it actually enhance the penalties. If you are caught with a concealed weapon and you have you have you have one of those prohibitions in place. So that was one of the I guess, one of the concessions for it. So family violence, offenders, things like that, criminals can't carry under the new concealed carry law. You can carry concealed or in an open holster. I mean, you've always been able to open carry, but now you can conceal. Where can you carry it? Most most public government buildings that do not. Prohibit them. Basically, where they're talking about where they're banning them. Polling place while voting is taking place. Government meeting open to the public, a courthouse. Except when you're specifically authorized to be able to carry. I don't know when that would ever be, but OK,

Hopefully this will be the only thing.

A place where high school, collegiate or professional, sporting or interscholastic events are being held. So high school, college football, any Cowboys game track, a racetrack, a correctional facility, a prison, and access and access controlled airport terminal and amusement park or a bar. So aside from that, if you want to go down to the mall with your gun, I guess you can. It says that churches and private businesses can continue to prohibit guns with a written or verbal notice. They also have a discretion to ban open carry but allow concealed carry. So you could put a sign that says we allow concealed carry. Just don't don't don't brandish your weapon out here. Yeah. OK, so the violations of carrying and carrying concealed in a prohibited locations, class A misdemeanor or a third degree felony. You can still obtain a license if you want to, but it's not required. But apparently, there's a there's a safety course that they can that they can they have they've offered that you can take a well, which I would encourage everybody to take a firearm safety course if you haven't already. Does it change any kind of background requirements? I think those are federal anyway, and they require a background check. Private sellers don't require a background check, so. Now, here's the here's where it gets a little bit trickier. Can law enforcement officers detain someone for carrying the gun? So the only thing you're doing is carrying this concealed weapon. And so there was a House amendment that they tried to pass, but the Senate stripped the House amendment that would have banned the police officers from making a stop solely because the person is carrying or partially or concealed or wholly visible handgun in the holster. So it all depends on the interpretation of the bill. So an officer acting in the lawful discharge of that officer's official duties may disarm a person. And any time the officer leaves and reasonably believes it's necessary for the protection of the person, officer or another individual. So that's so that's going to that's going to create some litigation down the road.

Absolutely. Without a doubt

In Texas will join 20 other states where a handgun can be carried without a permit.

Yeah, I mean, so we're obviously not unique in that capacity. I would tell you that we're one of the larger states that actually is going to have these these laws enacted. And the challenge really isn't that, you know, there's arguments on both sides. I am I've always been a fan of some restrictions as to who can do it just because, you know, you look at the statistics, a lot of people usually get killed with their own guns because they don't know how to use them. And so if you're not somebody who's been around them and raised with them, spent time with them, it's going to practice with them, you know, take some safety courses. You're just going to go buy a gun and think you're going to be fine. It could be a recipe for disaster. I understand. Yeah, I understand the mentality behind the law, though. Everybody's like, hey, the only people who are actually adhering to the license to carry parameters are the good guys. You know, everybody else is like, hey, I'm Jerry. Any time you go down into the hood and walk, every fourth person has a gun. And none of them have. I mean, first, this is

My personal opinion is I'm not going to carry it in a shopping mall. I'm not going to carry them to a restaurant. You know, I carry it in my car for protection just in case. Obviously, keep one at home in case of an emergency, because, I mean, I'm a firm believer in if somebody is breaking into your house, whatever's going to happen is going to happen before the police get there. You can call nine one one. And, you know, at least in my neighborhood, whatever is going to happen is going to happen before the before the police get there. And then they can have the best response time in the world. And it's still you have to may have to take matters into your own hands. But that all that being said, I mean, I think there's a lot of sense of balance since, you know, since that has to go into this common sense. You know, I wouldn't carry into a shopping mall. I wouldn't carry to a sporting event or a concert or anything like that. But I mean. You just have to know the law and where you're going.

I think and you have to you have to be aware of what their rules are. But I mean, I'm not going to fault anybody who carries a carries if they feel they need to. But I would tell you this, I 100 percent agree with you that the majority of the time people end up getting harmed by their own gun. You know, if they don't know what they're doing, if they don't know how to use it, if they don't, you know, if they don't, you know, they're responding, you're responsible for that gun. When you pull it out of the holster and or pull it out and play, for instance, you're responsible for what happens. So you've got to be you know, you've got to with great power comes great responsibility, like they say, our hero, Spider-Man, Spider-Man. But but no. I mean, I think you I think everybody should should, you know, take a gun safety course if you feel if you feel you need to. But, you know, that's that's kind of how I feel about it.

Well, and I agree, Bryan. And not only that, but the advantage of a gun safety course is these gun safety instructors have really spent time studying the law and its application. So a lot of times they can give you insight that most people don't. They just go buy a gun, put it in their holster under their shirt and start walking around. They'll tell you you can't take it in the hospital. They'll tell you be careful when you walk into a restaurant bar, which most restaurants now are, because all of a sudden you go in and you think you're at a restaurant and you get an internal altercation or somebody sees that you're you know, they're like, oh, he's brandishing this weapon, even though you aren't. It's just the flash under your shirt. And then all of a sudden you're getting arrested and they're saying, hey, look, it was opposed and you can't take it into bars. And like I thought I was at a restaurant. You don't mean there's just a lot of complexity behind how to carry concealed that this law, even though it spells it out, sort of it doesn't really give you all the details of it, that a lot of times, the short course, couple of hours, somebody will have the time to kind of walk you through it and tell you, hey, here's what you can and can't do, should and shouldn't do.

I mean, we live in a you know, we live in a more dangerous time than it even was five years ago. So I get people wanting to carry laws. But I mean, I think it's incumbent upon you as the as the the person carrying the gun to know the, you know, the rules of where you're going. You know, where are you going? Where are you going to be? What are their rules with respect to, you know, to carrying a firearm. But I mean, as far as keeping one in your vehicle or I mean, I completely understand that. I mean, how many times have we been inundated with news stories about people getting drug out of cars and, you know, different things happening? So, you know, I get I understand that. And I understand wanting to keep your family safe if you have to travel or you're going through a rough neighborhood or whatever.

And hell, brother, not even a rough neighborhood nowadays, like you're walking in the frickin suburbs and there are shootouts, you know, I mean, you just never know. That's the whole reason behind this law. The law was enacted because it's become a much more violent society that we live in. And because of that, the propensity, the likelihood that you might be in a violent encounter where you would need a firearm to defend yourself, to defend your family, to defend somebody else. It's much higher than it's ever been. And in that so, you know, I don't think either you or I is going to ever say it's not a good idea to have a gun, to be prepared to use a gun to understand what the ramifications are when you use that gun, because there are substantial legal ramifications, even just a pool without aiming at somebody. But in that, you do have to know, not only understand that, but understand like what this law means. Like, you know, a lot of people don't even really understand what Kornfield is. Right. So you'll talk to people and they'll say, well, an open carry state, does it really matter now that we're going to have that you could already carry these guns anyway? Well, an open carry, obviously available on your holster, you know, attached to your belt on the outside of your shirt is completely different than concealed will if you have it under your shirt. But you could still kind of see a part of it.

Is it brandishing it? Is it. No, I have it in a holster, but it's visible, but it's actually concealed some of the time on my concealing it. You know, there's just a lot of nuances to how this law is applied. And the biggest piece of it I'm going to tell you right now, and my concern is law enforcement, because, you know, law enforcement, many law enforcement officials were not in favor of this law. They weren't. And the challenge, as I understand it, a lot of police officers that are friends, you know, at all different levels. And I will tell you that their concern was not paid. The average citizen who's trying to do the right thing and protect themselves. It's that it's very difficult to discern and to control the situation. And so they always air on the side of overreacting to protect themselves and their family because they want to go home at the end of the day. And so it can really ratchet up a situation to where you're thinking like a normal encounter with the police officer when you're unarmed could go pretty simply some questions and you're on your way. When you're armed, it's highly likely you're going to get handcuffed, you're going to get secured, your weapons are going to be removed from you. You're going to have a much longer interaction with the police officer in this scenario than you would in the other.

I will say this, if I can play a little bit as devil's advocate on the on the gun bill now this is my own kind of personal opinion, but I mean, I do think laws like this do create a little bit of a deterrent for and I'll explain why in just a second. They create a little bit of a deterrent for the shoot out in the public and the public there in the public area. You know, and when you see all of these school shootings and mall shootings and different things that could happen that are tragic. I mean, but where do these where do these shooters, these active shooters, where do they hit? Mean they typically hit places where there isn't going to be guns, a school, for example, they shoot up a school or a church where you're not going to be carrying a gun or nobody's going to be carrying a gun. When was the last time we had a mall shooting and shoot out in Texas somewhere where people can carry guns? You know, I do think it does create a little bit of a deterrent effect to the would be shooter who, you know, is going to you're not going to go shoot up a shopping mall. Problem is, when they go to shoot up, they only hit they only seem to hit soft targets and targets where they know they're not going to they're not going to encounter somebody who might have a gun. And I think the part of this is probably a little bit of a deterrent effect.

When I really feel like and I'll agree with you and I'll take it a step further, Bryan, I feel like it's all short. This law, in my opinion, falls short of its intended target. Its intended target was, hey, guess what? We're going to put everybody on a level playing field. We're going to put criminals on notice that you run the risk of somebody being able to respond to your act of violence with extreme violence. Right. And that in itself should be a deterrent. The problem is exactly what you just said. There's so many exclusions to where you can carry and where you would take it that I'll give you a prime example. One of the things that you mentioned let's just talk Friday Night Football, because we're about to be their brother and I'm all kinds of fired. Right? All right. Yeah. Football is back in season. Everybody's practicing, putting on the pads, getting out. There you go. Friday night football. Can you carry? You cannot you cannot wear do a lot of these altercations and shootouts in parking lots happen? Yeah. Are you to your car? Maybe. Maybe not. Do you make it? No. Is it in the stands? Yes.

Do you see what I'm saying? Like so. I'll tell you one that just happened in the Metroplex. You know, there's a very well known amusement park. It's a water park, for crying out loud. You know, everybody's leaving the park and closing out. There's a big shootout. Two teenagers die. So, you know, this is the situation that we're finding ourselves in more and more. And so where you would think the challenge that I have to this law is you and I are law abiding officers of the court. You know, we understand it. We read it. We know how to apply it. Criminals don't care. Criminals could care less what this Flippen law says. They're going to walk it into a hospital. They're going to walk it into an amusement park. They're fine. Good. They're going to walk it into Friday night football games, genom. And the challenges is that the people who are law abiding, that this law is designed to help. It's really it is helping in some ways. I'm not going to lie because it makes it where you don't have to take a course, you don't have that. And I mean, may just go the

Criminal may not get a halfway down the street as well. He may not.

Well, let's hope. Let's hope. But I would just tell you, like that's where I feel like the law falls short. And I think that's the rub. Right. But that's the challenge. And laws like this, you know, we've talked about it before, is when you want to go down this road, I really feel like you either have to go down the road and say, do it, we can do it if wherever you go, you can have it, or because when you try to put these parameters that say you can, you can do it. But in very limited fashions, in very limited places, and you better understand how to do it. The only really the only restriction that that's applying to is the same roub you're hearing from all the other people. It's applying to law abiding citizens does not apply to the criminals. And that's who we're really trying to deal with.

So, I mean and I and I understand the exclusions. I mean, I get mean most of these places are going to have armed security anyway. Airports, amusement parks, correctional facilities, racetracks. Most of the time, football games are going to have armed security. They're there, too. And I understand that bringing down around the polling place, I think that that that goes that is a long history of not doing that.

We're only going to make them vote one way. And I think that's fair, right.

That's why they that's why they have that exclusion in place so you can vote free and free and clear of any kind of a threat. Sitting there, sitting. Sitting over your shoulder, right? Sure. But yeah. Well, to your point, I mean, it does create a lot more soft targets, potentially. But I get not being able to carry in the bar. I mean, you don't want to have guns around where you're where you're serving in jail.

Yeah. The unfortunate thing is over there, like that's where these types of interactions legitimately are happening. And so that's the challenge of a law like this. And so while I agree the sentiment of it, absolutely. I feel like it's in our Constitution, it's in my personal constitution, my family's constitution, you know, that this is, you know, the right to carry, the right to bear arms. I was raised in it. I let it breathe it. I believe it. I just think that when we try to govern it with very detailed, structured laws like this, it really becomes very restrictive. And the person that ends up finding those penalties, brother, is not the bad guy. Most of the time, the people who are struggling with this, who are getting these large fines, who are getting these misdemeanor and third degree felony charges, are not the criminals. They're actually most of the time the good guys.

So let me ask you this. So on the one hand, you have the potential deterrent effect of, hey, I'm not going to shake down that guy in the parking lot and try to try to fight him or grab him or whatever, because he might be carrying a gun. Sure. The other side of the coin is, does it escalate potential violent encounters? Because, hey, I've got my I've got my gun. So, you know, so I've got I've got a case of Billy bad ass. And I can go over there and and incite this altercation because he's not going to mess with me because I'm carrying. So, listen, you know, so I don't know that I don't know the statistics behind that. And I don't know if they maybe even done a study on something like that. But, you know, is does it created a. Are in effect like, hey, I better not try to fight in the parking lot, some I get shot or hey, I'm going to be more likely to fight because I got I got I got a heater backing me up.

Yeah. You know, I mean, I'm a I'm a I'm a firm believer in the MadDog theory of your the MadDog theory mentality. So the mad dog theory, you tell us when you run into a mad dog, there's one thing that you can do, really. You can shoot and put that dog down, because if you don't, that dog is going to put you down. Now, I would tell you that the scenario that that presents to its crazy people and you and I both know brother with a long history in the law, that trying to talk common sense to crazy people, it just doesn't

Want ever going to happen.

Never, because they don't understand common sense. They only understand crazy. And that's really the basis of this law and seems crazy at crazy level. Oh, that's what that's where I was going. Because honestly, unless you're prepared to meet crazy at crazies level, then you really should be looking for the flight rather than the fight in that scenario. But, you know, Texas obviously were one of those states where you can stand your ground, you can decide, hey, you know what, this is worth it to me to be able to like have a year or two years worth of legal battles. It's going to cost me all of my money and my house and my family and maybe my freedom because this guy cut me off and I'm just pissed off enough to want to step outside with my gun because I feel confident about it. You know, you still have to make intelligent decisions. I really believe this. The concealed carry law is designed to give people the ability to respond, but they still have to be able to decide when that that situation warrants it. And that personal responsibility thing. Right. And that's where I think just a little bit of training. I know none of us want to go to school. I know none of us want to learn anything because we know everything already. But in this one scenario, I would tell you that, you know, your heart is pumping. You've got adrenaline jumping through. I mean, most people don't even hit the target that they're trying to when they pull the weapon through the first time to discharge it. Yes, they miss. And guess what? You're you're you're you're right off the interstate. You're shoot people in their car and have it wrecks. You know, you miss somebody, you hit their house, you kill somebody and somebody's kid in their bedroom sleeping. Like, I just those are the things that, you know, the arguments for just a little bit of education. You know, I mean, the military does. Months and months and months and months of training to

Learn how they what's the first thing they they start teaching you when you're in the military's proper gun safety, proper proper use of a firearm. Same thing in the police academy. And the first thing they teach you is how to handle a gun, how they're handled properly, and you know, how to take care of and how to respect that firearm.

So I'm 100 percent behind people's right to do this. I just wish that rather than a suggested course, there was at least something that said you got to go through a minimum amount of learning or at least provent fine if you don't want to do the learning because you're like, hey, I've been around this my whole life, I'm military, I don't need to do this. Great, then pop up, do the test, answer some questions to be done. You get to see it again. I just I worry about the people who don't know it. But look, here's the bottom line. We're free in this country. Still sort of kind of. And so for as long as we can have those sort of kind of freedoms, then I think we should protect them. And so I am behind it. I just you know, it does raise concerns. And they're not. No, is the answer to your point, whether it be like, you know, there's going to be talked about for a while, we're going to have to see how it plays itself out for.

I think it's an interesting line, and I am you know, I mean, I think like you to your earlier point, is the only people that are going to follow this law are law abiding and law abiding citizens, the criminals, and can care whether there's a concealed carry law and not a concealed carry while they're going to carry it no matter what. And they're going to carry as heavy as they possibly can. They're going to they can get an AK 47 automatic, fully automatic. They're going to do it.

Oh, my God. Chipotle every day. And he's walking in with his AK. I'm like, all right.

No, you know, you're new. The only people that are going to follow this typically are going to be law abiding citizens. So why why put another impediment in their place? And I think that's maybe a little bit of the rationale behind this weapon. Another impediment is a place to keep them from being able to carry a gun when you know that the criminals aren't aren't, you know, people that would be likely to use this gun to cause harm. But people aren't aren't following any of this stuff.

So, hey, man, grandma back and I like it. You know, it's like that. I don't even remember those. HauteLook, how many pull out that big old three? Fifty seven with the long barrel, the nickel plated one and be like, hey, let's talk

A little bit about this, because this is this is something where you where this could come into play. And I know you've got college age, kiddo, so, you know, a college, a college campus. I mean, how many how many rapes? Campus rates have been averted because that child is back and packing heat.

Yeah, and, you know, honestly, there was a quite a quite a stir when this first came out because there were provisions of the law that said that when they hit college campuses, colleges could restrict like where you could keep it so you could keep it in your vehicle, but you couldn't bring it into the dorms.

So you may have a ghost. The ghost behind you. It's really creepy, very paranormal, like crazy

Dog,

Really terrible

Activity, then my dogs can do some crazy things like they're they're bona fide.

They're being talking in the door.

They're bona fide geniuses. And they can open a girlfriend, a ring coming out of there. Dude, if you if you see that freaking lady talk, you got to tell me, man, I'll break and go get the heater real quick. But we're going to have to use it. That probably would. Crazy dog. You freaks everybody out. We need you to put your pal up there and be like,

Hey, I mean, the door just goes and I'm like, oh, crap. Is that crazy girl from the reading? He's like,

Yeah, he's this tall and he's coming out. I was like, that's freaking me the hell out. It's the conjuring, you know, anyway. Right. I know. I'm glad you let me know. You know, you can wreak some havoc in there for sure. But, you know, I would tell you that I don't even know where we're going.

Oh, college kids. College campus.

Oh, college kids. Yeah. So there have been a lot of restrictions that universities have put in place as far as like where you can maintain that weapon when you can carry. You know, and that's really it's not a

Private business, a college. You know, college campus is not a private business. Obviously, it's not a high school. Can you carry it into your high school or your your college, you know, English 101 class?

Well, they they did. So the legislature and the courts kind of spent some time on that. I would tell you, I sat on a board of regents for a while for a university, and the general consensus was just like you can't bring them into the school room and high school. You shouldn't be able to take them into the college classroom. Now, obviously, we've had some pretty severe and dramatic shootings on college campuses in the past. And so, you know, that was one of the things, again, where we're talking about these restrictions that you just really have to understand and know your rights. But also the people who were these these laws are really designed to protect. And these instances that are inspiring us to enact these kinds of laws are really in the exception for the most part than they are in the rule. Does it mean that people can't at least run out to their car and get it and come back in because you can't have it in your car, in the parking lot, just can't have it in the building. But, you know,

Can you get on the campus to dorm, you know, at night, you know? Yeah. In this email, I think as a female, you know, I don't really see it's going to help you a lot more than a rape whistle is going to help you.

I'm who I've been. Well, I can tell you, look, obviously, my daughter, she's a college girl and we spent a lot of time at the range working to do stuff. And I feel secure about her security as long as she does what she's supposed to do. So I agree with you 100 percent. It definitely gives you some peace of mind in those situations. I just you know, I'm hoping that we as a state do a good job of implementing this at the person level, because really, you know, when you're at 5000 feet or 50000 feet like a legislature is and you're creating these laws, you have no idea how an application is really going to work. And so it's the everyday Joe and Sally that are going to put this in place. And those are the people that I'm concerned about that they really kind of spend a little bit of time, hopefully listen to this podcast and get some insight and inspire them to maybe go, you know, pull up that law, you know, do a little due diligence, think about where you're going before you put that under your shirt and go to that place so you don't get yourself a job

Or make an appointment or talk to your local sheriff. I mean, they're nice people. They're elected. They're they're elected officials. They're going to tell you how they feel about it in their particular jurisdiction. And you know what you should you know, and it's important to probably know that person anyway. You know, go down to your local sheriff's office, get to know your local sheriff who patrols your in your neighborhood. I mean, it's important to you, you know, that person and you honestly, it's important that you know that person. That person is important. Your kids know that person. Absolutely. And that I mean, I don't think there's any any harm in going and introducing yourself to law enforcement and saying, hey, you know, they got this new gun law. I mean, what do you guys think about it? What are you going to do? What do you guys look for with, you know, what do I need to be concerned about? I mean, yeah, they're not going to you know, obviously you have the right to, you know, to carry and they're not going to they're not going to say that they're going to infringe on your rights. But at the same time, I mean, it's the application of the law that we're talking about. That's what that's what we that's where we have a job. We have a job in the application of law and the facts and certain situations. Right. I mean, whether it's family, whether it's criminal, whatever the case may be. So, you know, the application of this law to the facts of a particular situation is going to be where, you know, where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. So how are the how are the police officers in your local jurisdiction then going to view this in a particular situation, know sometimes in that police report has all the details, right? Yeah. So it's worth worth maybe. On and talking to him and saying, hey, you know, this was important to me and you know, I want to see what you guys think,

What I will tell you, like, you know, one of the things that I also encourage, like friends, family members, clients to ask me about this long kind of suggestions, I'm going to tell you, I think there's two things that you have to remember. One is that, you know, if you are caring and you have any encounter, I don't care if it's a speeding ticket, whether it's a local cop or a state trooper. You better identify to that officer that you are carrying concealed. OK. Most of the time they're going to tell you to leave it wherever it is. They're probably going to get super heightened. But I would tell you, talking to most law enforcement people that I know officers share of Secret Service. These guys are saying, hey, look, it just means that more and more as we're doing any kind of interactions with the public, we are heightened level. It's not usually run around at about 7:00 in the scale of one to 10. They said, really, we're just going to stay at about 9:00 because we just don't know. And it helps when you're honest in those interactions to kind of keep things at an even keel or even kind of bring them down. It's much worse for you to get into that situation, in my opinion, and say, you know what, I wouldn't want their attention. And then all of a sudden they come across it as they hate. We step out of the vehicle. I just want to check whatever and they see it. You didn't tell them about it. I'm telling you what, you're going to end up in the back of a squad car till they sort it out. So, you know that point number one? Point number two is really, I guess, as a secondary note from somebody who has a family and, you know, has kids. I'm just going to tell you, if you've never owned a firearm, but you decided that this law and acting on September one has inspired you to go get one, please make sure that you're taking all the necessary precautions to secure it. All right.

And gun safety. Gun locks.

Yeah. I mean, the bullets away from the gun. Gosh, it's just you know, it could it can be just a terrible situation. And the reason I tell you that is because when you carry consistently, it becomes what do you think is like putting your wallet and keys down when you come back? Right. Take them out of your pocket. You find a place, you put them down. Well, you know, when you carry consistently, a lot of times your firearm becomes it's like an extension of the things that you just naturally put on your person when you go places. So you just want to make sure that, hey, you know what? You understand, that's not a set of keys. It's not your wallet. It's it's a dangerous weapon. It's not a paperweight. So it's something that needs to be secured every time.

At one time that that carried and discharged a discharged a firearm into, I believe, his thigh because he, I guess, just didn't realize it, that it was loaded, didn't have the safety on. And like you said, carrying around a wallet or car keys, picked it up to put it in know, put it in a holster there on the side and shipped himself in to work.

So, yeah, I had a client who was carrying whether he was changing the tire. He had a flat tire on the side of the road, families in the vehicle. He gets out to change it. He's got his weapon on its hip as he's trying to change it. He's trying to pull this leg off with Lugnut off. It's really tight. So he's fighting with it. It finally comes free. And you know how those always happen. They come up with the worst of those him off balance. He falls backwards. He kept one in the chamber balls back and discharges into the vehicle. Thankfully, it didn't hit anybody. But I mean, he was just devastated. I mean, he was like, oh, my God, if that would have, you know, something tragic would have happened.

Two inches to the right or whatever.

Yeah. And I get it. You don't mean like that's one of the things we haven't even talked about. And those are kind of preferences, right? You keep one in the chamber. Do you keep it where it's ready to be chamber? Well, these are all things that you can discuss with somebody who's been in the field, who's carried for years, who maybe was a former law enforcement or is law enforcement, to your point? Talk to them about it, because these are the kinds of things that you have to make a determination on in advance of caring.

Hey, I'm going to be too proud to tell you that, hey, whenever we we got a gun, me and my wife went down to the local shooting range. We got a guy who was a former law enforcement. Sit down with us. Show us how this gun works. Let's walk through it. Walk through the safety measures of it. Let's look fired on the range. Let's you know, let's learn about how this, you know, how this weapon works. And, you know, if you need to use it, we can use it. And then, you know that way, you know, we're not scared of it and we're not. And when we know how it works and we know how to be safe with it, there's nothing in the world. Won't that mean it's probably the best, I don't know, 80 to 100 bucks we spent?

Well, you know the thing. Yeah, and that's brilliant, brother. That's a great point, because, you know, everybody, I'll tell you, you have to have a license to like have a dog if they'll have a license to drive a car. You know, all these things potentially are serious weapons. And so I'm not saying that we need to have a license for this, but I do think that you just need to understand what you're doing before you do it. So you know that that's allowed CUrdy the advantage. I did want to kind of make this one point to people are like, well, you don't need your LTC anymore. Here's what I'm going to tell you. And Lightsey matters. If you go through that course and get it, you can still carry as you travel, if you travel interstate, depending on where you're going. Know your jurisdiction, but you cannot just because you can. Carry concealed in Texas, then decide, here, I'm going to go to Kansas and I can concealed carry in Kansas if we don't have a similar law. So that's kind of one of those things that you got to make sure you know where you're going. Yeah, no, where you go. I know the jurisdiction of the laws as they apply. If you have questions, obviously contact. If, you know, counsel can contact a local municipality, the sheriffs, the police department, ask them, say, hey, I'm going to be taking a trip in this. I usually carry what are the laws in there and what do I need to know? They'll tell you right off the bat,

And they sure will. What car do you drive again? What's the license plate number?

Where would you tell us? What's your driver's license number? So I can keep an eye out for you and show you

What road you Covid don't know. But yeah, I mean, this is all great information. So I encourage you to anyone to take a look at this bill. If you have questions, reach out to us. If you reach out to a competent counsel and get your questions answered. Well, awesome. This a good one today, I think.

Yeah, it's been a minute, but we thought that that was not on my mind.

We talked to Brittany. Let's let's change subjects a little bit. We talked to Britney, Britney Spears a while back on. It's been some some updates in the conservatorship law as it pertains to the guardianship of one Britney Spears,

The naughty hottie Britney. Yeah.

It is turning into a legal a legal bloodbath, right? I mean, there's there's motions flying around. They're trying to discharge the dad as a conservator. You know, she's given interviews telling them she can't even use her and she can't even decide when she takes her birth control out based on the conservator, because the conservator controls all of that. So, you know, it's kind of a it's kind of a crazy situation.

Yeah, it really is. And, you know, I think the thing that people are learning vicariously at Britney's expense is that, you know, guardianships, once they're put in place, they're very difficult to wrap up. You know, giving giving control sometimes is a whole lot easier than taking it back, especially in the court system, because once you involve the courts, you have all these hurdles where people are going to have they're going to make you what we call, you know, job to

Poodle's, kind of get a threshold before you can have it, before you can justify a change.

Yeah. And that's really the challenge that she's running up against, because clearly when this was put in place, she voluntarily said, yeah, let's do this because I'm a train wreck. And now she's like, but I'm not a train wreck. And they're like, well, technically, you are still a train wreck. We're just going to open, you know, loosen some of these reins up. And everybody's like, you know, there's a big political movement and, you know, a

Free Brittanie movement.

Yeah, that's Amy. And what they're really yeah. What they're really arguing against is like these forced guardianships or these voluntary guardianship and the hurdles that you have to overcome to get released from them. But the thing about it is that in these situations and she's got competent counsel now, I don't know who counts. I don't know how competent her counsel was before, but the person that she has retained now is like years and years of experience and clearly has decided that, hey, you know what, my client wants to be out of this. I'm going to do everything that I can get out of it. So you're right, brother. I mean, we're going to see the lawyers are going to make a ton of money in this case because they're going to be fighting because nobody wants

To live right now. Right now, you've got an unhappy, you know, an unhappy woman and she's not a girl anymore, as her son would tell you. No, she's an unhappy woman that thinks she can make her own decisions. And, you know, time will tell on that, I guess. But I mean, you're in a situation now where she won't even perform because, you know, she doesn't get to keep the money. I essentially he goes she gets to keep the money, but she doesn't really get the money.

And so she couldn't even drive, brother. I mean, that's like some crazy stuff. I mean. So she just got to where she can just can't

Have a child with her boyfriend. I mean,

She can't carry her. You can't can't can't doesn't have the legal capacity, according to the court, to be able to enter a marriage. So, you know, you know, when you think about it in that context, the personal freedoms that you give up in those motions, I mean, in those those court proceedings, it's substantial. And, you know, she's got a long road to hoe in front of her, for sure.

Exactly. All right. Well, thanks for the time today. Tell us what's new with our favorite band, Fresh Milk.

Oh, my gosh. Hey, so okay. My son's band, super proud of them. I tell you that great song.

Great, great interest song for us.

Yeah. So they got like a they're working on their brand new LP right now, and they got a four original tracks. They're doing their first live show in Austin this weekend on Saturday. So if you have the opportunity to check them out, I think they're I know it's online cashbook. You can look them up there on iTunes, they're on Pandora, they're on all the streaming services.

So they're on the up and comers of the top Texas Lawyers podcast.

Hey, man, they let us borrow a song so we can say back when we like, hey, we got to got to sit that out first. Pretty good.

Absolutely. So if people want to reach out to you, where where do they get you?

Sure. You can find me. You know, if I'm not in Miami, I'm going to be up here in the Dallas Fort Worth area. You can reach me directly, probably email's best way at S.A.S., S.A.S.. At Aztec's legal dot com. You can call me directly at eight one seven nine one four five four seven zero.

All right. And I'm obviously you can reach either one of us that are on our website, WW dot legal dot com. Bryan Abercrombie the Abercrombie have asked legal dot com. My office numbers two eight one three seven four four seven four one. So we'd be happy to talk to you about any any legal issues you want to you want to bring our way. So thanks for the time again, Sam. I know it's been a while. I hope you had a great summer. And we'll be. We're back on the air. We're back on ABC, so to speak.

Right back on the horse.

Back on the bullshit. All right. All right, brother. Have a great one and we'll talk soon. Sounds good.

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